Hillary's Denver Death March

Crossposted from Left Toon Lane, Bilerico Project & My Left Wing


click to enlarge

I have no problem with letting Hillary Clinton speak at the Denver convention - none at all. I was one of those people in 1992 chanting "Let Jerry Speak!" But Hillary's convention preview far past bordering on tenacity, it screams vanity.

From the LA Times:

"Because I know from just what I'm hearing that there's incredible pent-up desire, and I think that people want to feel like, 'OK, it's a catharsis, we're here, we did it, and then everybody get behind Sen. Obama.' That is what most people believe is the best way to go," she said.

The former first lady did not rule out having her name placed into nomination at the convention, which will be held Aug. 25-28 in Denver. But her advisors said that was unlikely.

Clinton, who suspended her White House bid on June 7 and endorsed Obama, is expected to deliver a prime-time address to delegates on the second night of the convention.

There is not a damn thing that resembles an act of unity if Clinton allows her name to fall into nomination. It is divisive, arrogant and belligerent - that is how I have seen her entire campaign.

Remember, Obama's delegates don't matter.



Display:


Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 5)

As an early Obama supporter, I honestly don't see anything problematic with that quote.  


by rfahey22 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:33:51 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 8)

Same here.

For goodness sakes, 18 million people voted for her.

Yes, it got brutal, but she has been a strong team player since withdrawing?

I think this is being hypersensative to the max.

Even the title of this diary is offensive.

Not helpful.


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

Agreed.


Killing me softly with his song
by Miles Outlandish on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:19:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

Me neither.  

Hillary got 18 million votes...OF COURSE she should speak at the convention!


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diary (2.00 / 2)

scores mostly 8's and 9's in the 'Not Helpful' category, but I give it a perfect 10.  


by QTG on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:38:43 PM EST

I used to see her that way. (2.00 / 3)

Call me naive, but, these days, I see her as the Hillary I always loved. Maybe it's the way she's campaigned for Barack, or maybe it's my forgiving nature (but probably not). See my recent diary for reference.


by Bob Sackamento on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:42:53 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 4)

Really, really unhelpful diary.  The "death march" analogy hasn't gotten any less offensive with time.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:43:53 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 4)

So it was cool for Dean to get a roll call vote but it's not okay for a candidate who received 18 million votes...


by LDFan on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:44:45 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 3)

There is a 100% likelihood there will be a roll call vote.

Please, folks, keep it straight. A roll call vote is going to happen. It's part of the standard rules and procedures and delegates can vote for ANY candidate they want as part of the roll call.  

Just look at what Howard Dean said in mid-July:

When asked about the ads criticizing him and Speaker Pelosi for Clinton supposedly not being on the ballot at the convention, he scoffed. Clinton will be on the ballot at the convention, and will be speaking there. Dean indicated that the rules were so clear on this matter, that the groups running these ads and spreading these rumors must be associated with the other internet rumors going around, such as Obama being a Muslim. He also speculated that McCain supporters might be behind these rumors.
http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?dia ryId=7006

What's going on now has NOTHING to do with whether there will be a roll call and whether delegates could vote for Hillary. There will be and they can.

(The only issue is whether Clinton's name will be "placed in nomination.")


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 4)

Ah the drama. I for one think Hillary and the Obama campaign will work this out to the best advantage for both. So I think I'll let them work it out.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:46:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 3)

I agree with the posters above.  I see no problem with the quote as posted.  I don't personally think she's going to put herself in for the nomination, but even if she does, I don't care.  It's a symbolic gesture at this point, and she's not going to suddenly turn it around and win.

I'm halfway certain they're going to announce her as the VP candidate during her speech.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:52:25 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 2)

I was a die-hard Hillary supporter during the primary...

Now, I am 100% behind Obama!

However, as someone who is connected to many Hillary supporters I can tell you one thing. I honestly don't think Obama can win if Hillary is not VP. At least 20% of Hillary's voters are planning on not voting for President, voting Nader, or even voting McCain... This is why the polls will not budge and the race is so close.

Without the energy of these people (many of whom logged countless hours on the pavement and on the phones) I don't see how Obama can win the general election...

The "we don't need them" attitude isn't going to cut it. Just look at the daily Gallup tracking poll!

Only Obama can unify the party...with Hillary as VP.


by LDFan on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:59:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

I think he will win with her or without her--there's an occasional dip in the daily tracking polls, but the overall polls are still showing him polling strongly and on a roughly upward trend, and the demographics are still his.

I do, however, think that Hillary might be his strongest VP choice.  Picking a VP from a vulnerable red state could maybe, possibly, give him an extra state...  But that's not likely.  Picking Hillary, however, would give him a huge base of energized voters, donors, and volunteers that he otherwise might have had trouble with.  Polls show that the vast majority of Hillary's supporters are willing to vote for him, but voting for him and being enthusiastic for him are two very different things.

We'll win either way, but I think she'd help us win big.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 3)

Well, you're not going to get a lot of arguments from the Obama folks.

I'm not quite as definative that he loses without out her, I want her on the ticket cause she is massively qualified, and she would rip the living hell out of Mitt, Pawlenty, which ever sock-puppet they put up against her in the VP debate

I see very little objection to the dream ticket here from the MYDD Obama camp.


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:08:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

I would agree with that.  I don't think it's fatal if she's not on the ticket, but she would be one hell of an asset on the ticket.


by rfahey22 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 2)

I see very little objection to the dream ticket here from the MYDD Obama camp.

I think there might have been an objection in June, back when the primary wars weren't long behind us and feelings were still raw.  But it's August and we're over it.  I know I am, at least.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:13:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep (none / 0)

I've though Hillary should be VP for several months.  Not just for electoral advantages, but also for the amusement of all the exploding heads.


by JJE on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:55:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, people (none / 0)

Hillary will not be VP, because only one represents a modest break with the same old same old, and it ain't Hillary. It would utterly nullify the premise of Obama's campaign and energize the 56% who find her untrustworthy or who outright can't stand her.  We don't need the drama.  We don't need the media endlessly speculating as to what the VP and her wandering husband are up to.  We especially don't need the highly choleric Bill Clinton within a mile of the White House with his extraordinary sensitivity and his 132 million dollar "library" donations, which activities are only beginning to be unraveled.  


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 05:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, people (none / 0)

Again, I don't see how  picking a woman to be a vice presidential candidate would go against Obama's message of "change".

And if/when they win, she would be the first female vice president ever. Sounds like big change...but if your primary wounds are still raw and you insist on buying into the savage media's portrayal of the Clintons...then that's your prerogative.


by Babloo328 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sorry, people (none / 0)

Not buying into anything other than many, many  bad votes and bellicose rhetoric by Hillary, sorry if you can't handle that.  Carly Fiorina would be a woman, and it would be change, but it would be for the worse.  See how that works?  And don't ever kid yourself that the media are the ones who did anything other than proclaim from the start that Hillary was inevitable.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I used to agree with that (none / 0)

However, the only polling on the matter shows that Hillary increases O's chances in the general.  The GOP is conditioned to hate Democrats - I don't think Hillary will energize them to any significant degree that O will not.

As for what will happen after the election, I think O is strong enough to handle them in the White House if they start causing trouble (though I don't think they will).


by JJE on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 10:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I concur (none / 0)


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

I thought they might announce her as VP during the convention during her speech, but after reading and hearing things that are going on in preparation for the convention I don't think it will happen.

I will cast my vote on the floor for her on the first ballot.  The rules will be adhered to for the roll-call, as well as the ballot nominations.

The second and subsequent ballots if necessary will move around who has the most delegates.  The math is simple, after the first ballot Obama will be nominated.

However, if there is any shenaigance, I don't see the moving after the first ballot going over very smoothly.


He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin
by TxDem08 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:57:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 3)

Ah, the Roveian-stupidity is strong in this one Luke...must be from dkos


by zerosumgame on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 12:58:09 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 4)

wrong. period. there's nothing divisive about having her name on the first ballot. in fact, it would be arrogant and divisive to not do that. Obama will even still win on the first ballot!!! To claim that having the same sort of ballot as is STANDARD at all conventions (hmmmm, no one was demanding Kennedy or Hart remove their names from the first Ballot!!!) is Hillary stirring up trouble is well..... troll-worthy as being false and anti-Democratic.

You want divisive? Deny just about 1/2 of the convention delegates a chance to vote on the floor --- you'll see divisive then.

this isn't about trying to change the outcome of the nomination, just to have an official record of the first woman to win not just 1 but hundreds of delegates to a national convention!! Wouldn't it be ironic to take the vote away from all those women delegates on the anniversary week of the suffrage amendment???   hope that irony isn't lost on most people.


by swissffun on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:02:09 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 3)

First of all - it's called "Democratic" Party.

Since neither candidate had enough PLEDGED delegates to secure the nomination then a roll call at the convention is completely in order.

If FDR did not win the nomination in '32 until the 4th roll call, if Ted Kennedy, who was 976 delegates behind Carter could challenge an incumbent President, if all the MALE counterparts that ran 2nd place and felt the desire to challenge #1 - then why the hell SHOULDN'T Hillary Clinton?

As an ardent supporter, I EXPECT her name to be placed into nomination and I EXPECT her delegates to vote for her.

If this does not happen then how can YOU honestly expect these 18 million people to get on board and support the "fixed" nominee?


by nikkid on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:02:13 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 2)

"I'm halfway certain they're going to announce her as the VP candidate during her speech."

Well, if so, with everyone in on it, and IF they can keep it secret, it will blow the newscyles away for weeks.

It seems far-fetched, but I would love to see it!


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:05:21 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

It's just my pet theory, and it's just a hunch.  But I would be totally unsurprised to learn that the stories about considering Biden, Bayh, Kaine, Sebelius, et al. were just a smokescreen to misdirect the press.  In fact, I'd be unsurprised if the stories about Obama's continuing feud with Bill Clinton were not serving the same purpose.

Obama has shown he can run a very disciplined campaign, so the leaks about the VP speculation would only be coming out if the campaign wanted them to come out for a reason.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:11:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

A pleasant fantasy for some, no doubt, but not, it seems, for the two principals. I don't see why you lot can't see that they don't like each other much, and won't be forced into a chimerical alliance.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

i'm red from the embarrassment of having actually submitted a comment to this TR diary. What bait to try and stir up divisiveness. to all the genuine Obama supporters (from the primary) I apologise for even thinking for one minute that this trashy diary could have been written by one of you. obviously a muckracker.... (sp?)....


by swissffun on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:06:35 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

stormbear:
1) it's pretty rude to abandon your own diary not leaving one comment or participating in the thread

2) having this diary linked word for word in your sig line strikes me as borderline spamming, and inflammatory spamming at that.


by swissffun on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:20:30 PM EST

It isn't helpful (1.00 / 1)

Once again we have to treat Hillary as if she is a bomb that needs to be disarmed instead of a person who can choose to do what is right for the party as a whole.  

It is Obama's race to win or lose.  If he doesn't think putting Clinton's name on the ballot is going to help him win in November then she shouldn't put her name on the ballot.  A "catharsis" isn't needed. This isn't third grade. We don't need to give everyone a trophy.  Any Democrat who can't support the only Democrat left in the race isn't someone whose vote we should spend time worrying about.  

We need to use the convention to talk about our plans for our country.  Every minute the press is reporting on "healing" the party is a minute wasted.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:24:36 PM EST

Don't let the 48+% of elected delegates committed (2.00 / 1)

to Hillary have any input or chance to express themselves.  
No way that could reverb badly, eh?
Snark.
John McCain says he would stay in Iraq for 100 years? That's crazy talk!
by kosnomore on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:35:06 PM EST

all those words you used (none / 0)

Are perfect to describe Obamabots.  Sorry- but true.  You reap what you sew.


by easyE on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:43:20 PM EST

I wear what I sew. (2.00 / 2)


by JJE on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: all those words you used (none / 0)

Sew buttons on your underwear, Nyah hah!


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 06:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and the stupidest diary of the (2.00 / 1)

day goes too...


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:48:20 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

I'm pretty sure there's going to be a roll call vote, but let's not kid ourselves, no one is going to watch it at home.  Modern conventions have become  occasions for political speeches.  Don't think Obama would be hurting himself at all if the Dems stage managed some process which acknowledged his narrow margin of victory (because everyone knows he won by a hair, what's the big deal?).

The interesting question, I think, will be whether Clinton comes out with a ringing nothing-held-back endorsement of the Democratic ticket or uses the occasion to feather her own nest.  We won't know until she gives her speech.  Don't think there's any question that she should do the first.  It's pretty obvious that the Clintons don't like being supporting players, though, so who knows how this will go down?

The prospect of Obama/Clinton tension at the convention, far from being a minus, will be the main reason why viewers tune in, because except for this most really have no reason.  In an odd way that's a plus.  Who will watch the Republican convention? (most voters no longer feel they have a civic duty to watch the speeches of the candidates, things have changed a lot during the past thirty years).


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:54:03 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

How big of you to have not problem with "letting" Hillary speak at the convention. Except, unless your name is Barack Obama or Howard Dean, you really don't get to have a say in the matter, do you?


by LakersFan on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:54:27 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

 This diary sadly feeds disunity at a time when the party is trying very hard to unify it's factions. And furthermore the title of this diary smacks of trollism.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 01:54:40 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

Schuster is on Schultz saying that the Clintons are trying to blackmail the Obama campaign into something (or they will wreck the convention) and that the Obama campaign is very upset at all of this...

Something's afoot.. the Clintons are addicted to drama, so it's no surprise that this is occurring... of course, the press is probably trying to make something out of nothing...

We'll see what really happens...


by LordMike on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 02:07:47 PM EST

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

So tell us, are the folks who detest the Clintons as 'addicted to drama' as you claim the Clintons are?


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

I don't recall Obama holding the party hostage for months by trying to extend a primary he could not mathematically win without a coup...

Maybe I missed something...


by LordMike on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 03:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (2.00 / 1)

Apparently you missed democray in action.

No one 'held a party hostage'.

It was a process, it played it's course, as usual there is one winner and as not so usual a very close second.  

It's lamentable that some folks still see it as simply something that should have been given to Obama without effort on his part past super Tuesday.

I suppose your answer, as dramatic as it is, provides the answer to my question.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 05:07:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

ems, the primaries are over. Trying to sir up shit only makes you look like a deadender.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 05:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's Denver Death March (none / 0)

Calling someone on their continued smears of the Clintons is not 'stirring up shit', it is  standing up to a smear.

You know I am no 'deadender', and if you would have tripped over such a smear slung at Obama, you would have done the same as I did.

Stop trying to continue to force those of us who were Clinton supporters now supporting Obama into some sort of  Bush-like 'out of sight speech zone' just because you don't like us.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Sat Aug 09, 2008 at 12:30:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Your diary title is inflammatory and violative (none / 0)

of MyDD guidelines. Please consider changing the title. Thanks

Just another MyDD reader.


by louisprandtl on Thu Aug 07, 2008 at 05:38:34 PM EST

Slimy n/t (none / 0)


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Fri Aug 08, 2008 at 02:21:40 AM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.