That's rich.

is that this really did not have to go this way.  Could they have resisted calling the Clinton's racist none of this would be happening.

there's a grand tradition in African American circles of criticizing your leadership. Jews have that too (just look at Lewis Black, that man knows how to rant!).

Keep questioning, keep thinking, and keep voting.

FWIW, in the South at least, College Educated folks are more likely to vote for Obama than Blacks.

citokate.

Two-thirds to one-third.  How is that not monolithic?

Women dont vote 92% democrat if they did we would have a Womans Party that ruled America that would practically be undefeatable. So you cant compare the women vote to the black vote. Clearly there are plenty of female Republicans who feel that Womans Rights as an issue is not important enough for them to cross party lines.

Women have are well represented in the goverment. There have been 2 black govenors in American history. There are probally right now over 10 female govenors in office including Michigan, Conneticut, Hawaii, Arizona etc... So being a woman is not half bad. Being black on the other hand is certianly more of a obstacle to success.

Identity politics aint it grand

1.  Clintons as questionable on race:  Obama campaign has done a good job of making lots of Americans believe that the Clintons are either outright racist or at least insensitive enough to use race against Obama.  That's an untruth, but it's been a very successful untruth.  A lot of Americans, white and black, believe it.   African-Americans who believe it would be completely justified in voting against her, in my view.  Racism and race-baiting are offensive!   A lot of whites are also against Clinton for that reason.

2.  Peer pressure.   A lot of Obama supporters, white and black, have been simply over-the-top in the pressure that they place on their peers.   I've read articles about young women feeling completely unable to admit that they like Hillary, because their young men colleagues would be all over them.   So, they keep quiet.   I think an average black person with tendencies toward Hillary might experience the same thing among black friends.  

One interesting question, to me, is how many of these ambivalent people might actually pull the lever for Hillary when they're in the voting booth?   All of our "demographic" data come from exit polls -- since it's illegal to actually observe how a person votes -- and so one has to wonder how many people are walking out of the polls with friends and family and so feeling some pressure to report the "correct" vote?   The whole exit poll thing is weird since in our country we're supposed to have SECRET ballot which means you don't have to tell anyone how you voted.   I wonder how aggressive are exit pollsters in forcing people to answer?  It should be illegal to force people IMO.  

Miker, you're the only one who was contending African Americans were monolithic.  Blacks and thinking people pretty much already knew, without a poll, that they didn't have to follow Obama or Rev. Wright.  Obama's been on the national scene for a year and Rev. Wright a few weeks.  There is no logic to your premise, so the "claims" don't need a whole lot of support.

It will never end.  May not be race.

Then you will have the classical music crowd, the rock music crowd, the rap music crowd, the talk radio music crowd etc

But identity politics will always be how politics are done.

I think we'll see the end of black voters being excited about voting for a black candidate once black candidates become commonplace.  Otherwise, it's a bit unrealistic to hope for it at a time when black candidates remain as rare as a three-dollar bill.

My only point is that we didn't see many laments about identity politics back when the Greeks all voted for Dukakis.  Everyone accepted it as normal and expected.

class based and not race based. I am not trying to trivialize racism, just trying to point out that its not the same kind of racism that we used to have.. and much of it may not be race thats driving it.

The issue and the pain still hits African Americans hard but a reason for people's problems may perhaps increasingly be because many African Americans are also poor. That discrimination is more and more because of THAT.

At least that is what I suspect.

Perhaps the legacy of racism also effects people's ability to excel because of STRESS. The continuing income disparity that effects black Americans doesn't seem to effect black people from other countries who come to America as harshly, my feelin is perhaps its because people who come here do not internalize the racism that they experience as much, it doesn't effect them as viscerally because they know that there is a world where it doesn't happen. (or where the discrimination that does occur takes other forms than race?)

In some ways, I envy some black families - the ones that are very strong and closely knit.. more so than many white families. That can help people overcome a lot.

Its a complex picture that really defies simplistic generalizations.