Owning The War (HRC and GWB)

I was reading another diary "Top 10 Inane Profane & otherwise Flame arguments used versus Hillary Clinton " and took issue with the writer's (no.9) argument that the Iraq war is Bush's war and no one else's... especially not Hillary's. My response got a little passionate and my comment on the thread was getting long, so I decided to post my response as a diary here. No disrespect is meant towards the author of the original diary.

Yes, Iraq is Bush's war. It'll ultimately be on his head, and it will always be linked with his name.  But this war belongs to a lot of us.  It belongs to Cheney, to Rumsfeld, to Powell, to Tenet.  It belongs to the NYT and CNN and FOX.  It belongs to every American who allowed the post 9/11 hysteria to  sweep them up and away from critical thinking and patriotic skepticism. It belongs to everyone who chose to ignore the thousands on the streets who knew Bush was lying and had a hard-on for war.

And it belongs to a lot of Democrats.  It belongs to Feinstein, Biden, and Reid. It belongs to Kerry and Edwards. Whether for political expediency or a return to rationality, at least Kerry/Edwards apologized.  Though unsure if that apology is really enough, I tried to forgive them and decided that they are at least better than their Republican opponents.

Here's some people this war doesn't belong to: Gore, Obama, or Dean. They were well-informed enough to denounce the war early on and have spoken out against it ever since. Neither does the war belong to Germany, France, Russia, Canada, or the majority of our allies who knew this was an imperial play that would end in disaster.  It also doesn't belong to the majority of House Democrats who rejected the clearly titled "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq".  

It doesn't belong to the only Republican Senator who voted against the Authorization.  In Lincoln Chafee's recent book, he commented on pro-war Democrats, "They argue that the president duped them into war, but getting duped does not exactly recommend their leadership. Helping a rogue president start an unnecessary war should be a career-ending lapse of judgment."

The war in Iraq doesn't belong to the 32 Democratic senators who voted against the Authorization.  It doesn't belong to Boxer, Byrd, Feingold, or Kennedy. It certainly doesn't belong to Carl Levin.  He introduced the Levin Amendment that called for additional Congressional approval before a unilateral (that is, non-UN sanctioned) attack.  In other words, it called for more diplomacy.  Hillary Clinton voted against that measure, even though she now claims that she supported AUMF because she thought that would somehow lead to more diplomacy.

So, yes, the war also belongs to Hillary. She placed herself squarely among the minority of congressional Democrats who voted for the bill.  Was hers just one vote?  Yes.  It was one vote from one of the most prominent and influential Democrats in the Senate. It was a vote from a former First Lady. It was a vote from a likely presidential candidate. It was a weighty vote, and it likely gave cover to Democrats unsure of which way they might go. Worse, it was an enabling vote for Bush.  A Clinton vote for a Bush war effectively mainstreamed our country's march into Baghdad.

So far, no apologies. Hillary Clinton is basing her candidacy on experience, yet she still has been unable to apologize a vote for the war that people are dying in today. Rather than an apology, there are excuses. She says she believed Bush, as if that's supposed to make us feel better. Rather than an apology, there's the "I know you are but what am I" tactic of somehow making Obama complicit by the fact that he hasn't voted to defund the troops while they are still in harm's way.

For me, this is a defining issue. Any politician who voted for a clearly unnecessary war should make any voter think twice. If a presidential candidate can't grasp the basic principle that you don't attack a country that has not attacked you, then he or she  fails a very basic litmus test. Whether Hillary was duped  (unlikely) or going with the prevailing winds with an eye towards her political future (bingo!), it reveals a decided lack of leadership. Yes, Bush owns this war.  So does Senator Clinton.

..............

Before the assault begins, let me say that I was not an automatic Obama supporter. I didn't decide who I would choose up til the night of Feb. 4. There was even a chance that if Hillary would somehow own up to her mistake, I would have given her a second look (there's a lot I've admired about her). Given her subsequent  behavior in the primaries, I've become quite comfortable with my choice and I'm absolutely thrilled that the next president could very well be someone who, like me and so many others, knew Iraq was an immoral tragedy in the making.


Poll
Should Hillary Clinton apologize unequivocally for her vote on Iraq?
No. Because she was fooled by Bush.
No. Because she thought the AUMF would lead to more diplomacy.
No. She's expressed enough regret and her record since has been consistent.
Yes. But it was only one mistake.
Yes. It's a major factor, but I still support her.
Yes. And I doubt I could vote for her.
Yes. That's one of the reasons I support Obama, but I'd vote for her over McSame.

Votes: 12
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (2.00 / 2)

Hillary and her advisers thought she could breeze through the primaries, and wanted to preserve her national security "toughness" against the Republican in the general. I think that goes a long way towards explaining why she never outright apologized for her vote.


by animated on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:10:03 PM EST

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

I think you are right and I think it is a justifiable excuse. She has legitimate reasons for trying to look and act tough on national security, and I don't blame her for doing so.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (2.00 / 2)

A lot of people died in this war.  I think making her look tough isn't really good enough IMO.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

You are right.  I think that was exactly her motivation.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (2.00 / 2)

I opposed the war long before the AUMF. So did millions of other Americans who marched the streets. We saw war coming - it was clear as day. We knew we couldn't stop it, but we still tried. I cannot believe that any sitting Senator did not know that giving Bush any authority was a dangerous idea. Some realized it was a bad idea, and voted the right way. Sadly, some did not.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:11:12 PM EST

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

I'd be interested in hearing what you think the result would have been had all the Democrats, as a party, hung together and voted against the amendment. What do you think would have happened next in Bush's drive to war?


by Little Otter on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:26:54 PM EST

It could have made all the difference in the world (2.00 / 1)

A united Democratic party could have stopped it from passing which in turn would have seriously thrown up questions about the wisdom of going to war. It's exceedingly unlikely it would have changed W's mind but it might have forced him to wait on the Weapons inspectors (who naturally would never find any WMDS).


by DSloth on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

A concerted Democratic effort to turn the nation against the war, led by Clinton, would have undermined Bush's attempts to characterize war opponents as unpatriotic.  The nation would have seen the war as a Republican folly, which -- while it may not have prevented the war to begin with -- would have allowed Dems to humiliate the Republicans in the 2004 Pres and Cong elections, which would have meant that we would not be talking about Iraq to this day.


by DreamsOfABlueNation on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 11:46:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

Otter talking about would ofs or could ofs, doesn't change the Facts. Hillary voted for WAR!


by lion king on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 10:52:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (1.50 / 2)

You can't post a diary like this!

SEE: Top 10 inane reasons why anything you say about Hilary can be twisted to make you into a misogynist and also feeds the persecution complex.

It's a front pager!


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:33:43 PM EST

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

I see Trickster rated you a troll for this. Why's that, Trickster?


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:29:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

The poll should include a 'Yes, that's one of the reasons I support Obama, but I'd vote for her over McSame' option.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:38:20 PM EST

Agreed (none / 0)

I voted for the last one because the wording was amiguous.


by DSloth on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Owning The War (HRC and GWB) (none / 0)

OK. I added it word-for-word.  Thanks


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 07:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't mind giving Clinton some blame (none / 0)

I do mind giving her significant blame, because that re-writes history.

This was belongs 85% to Bush, 10% to the jingoistic media, and the other 5% split up to everybody that had a chance to make a stand and didn't.

Bush used the full power of the Presidency for well over a year to push for and propagandize for this war.  He did not hesitate to lie to the public and to the Congress to drive up support for the War.  

Our national intelligence services have multiple functions, but their primary task is to provide information to the President.  No other individual, with the possible exception of the President's close advisors, has the President's level of information both about foreign threats and about U.S. capacities to monitor and oppose such threats.

Traditionally, and under the Constitution and the court cases interpreting it, diplomatic and military powers are wielded almost exclusively by the President.  Although the Congress is obliged and has the duty to act as a check on the President's power, it is only expected to check those powers when things go wrong.  The ordinary and traditional division of duties is that the President enacts foreign policy and the Congress oversees it and, unless it finds wrongdoing, assists the President.

As a branch of government playing what is possibly best described as a secondary role in terms of foreign policy, with secondary information-gathering abilities and secondary Constitutional powers, Congress has traditionally taken the President at his word on foreign policy threats unless it has concrete information to the contrary.  

Remember that Bush had not yet been caught red-handed lying in the Fall of 2002.  Yes, some of us were very suspicious about a number of his WMD statements, and I'm proud to say I was one of those persons: but I hated Bush with a passion by that time.  Those tasked to assist him in managing our national foreign policy were probably best advised not to approach their task with such feelings for the President they were supposed to be assisting.

Remember, there's no mechanism for Congress directly running foreign policy, running the military, running the intelligence agencies.  They all work for the President.  All the Congress can do--and really, in terms of war and peace, it is a very significant constitutional question as to whether Congress can even do this much, although it claims the power--is veto a particular action and send the President back to the drawing board to come up, under his auspices alone, with another action.

Yes, some people saw through it anyway, and some people--almost all of them in safe, liberal districts with no immediate plans to run for national office--voted no on the resolution.  More power to them.  But, at least in 2002, I can see a lot of merit in Congress giving the President the benefit of the doubt in terms of a threat to national security.  The fact that any individual congressperson voted aye on that measure is in no way, shape, or form an indication that person would've invaded Iraq on his or her own.

No, invading Iraq belongs to George Bush.  There are a few other folks who aren't lilly-pure on the subject, but it's his war from stem to stern.  To the extent Congress aided him, it did so under political pressure that he relentlessly created and as part of a constitutional structure that reserves that decision almost entirely to him.


by Trickster on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 08:29:06 PM EST

Re: I don't mind giving Clinton some blame (none / 0)

Oh no, congress has at least as much responsibility for the war as Bush does, if not a lot more.  While the president is granted war powers, it's up to congress to make sure that he doesn't abuse those powers and because such an act of pre-emptive war was so unprecedented, congress should have been on high alert to exercise checks and balances. Ultimately it's congress that's in charge as they have the power to impeach the president at any time if he attempts to abuse his power, but congress not only authorized the war but also, by opposing the Levin Amendment, authorized the president to ignore the United Nations.  In addition, influential Democrats voting for war gave the war bi-partisan legitimacy in the eyes of the public, and while Bush did propagandize for war, Hillary (as the senator from New York of all places) made comments about Saddam being a threat and even claimed on the senate floor that he had links to Al Queda.  Indeed the most powerful propaganda for war was the bipartisan support Bush got.  


by greenboy on Tue Apr 08, 2008 at 12:27:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't mind giving Clinton some blame (none / 0)

What about the part in the  Constitution about Congress authorizing war?  Just sayin'.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Wed Apr 09, 2008 at 08:33:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

great diary (none / 0)

One of the things I can't stop thinking about when it comes to the war is just how catastrophic it has been on so many fronts. Think about how this war will affect this country for literally decades to come. We will be paying for this, financially, for the foreseeable future. Think about what effect it will have when we have tens, if not hundreds of thousands of veterans back in the US, suffering from PTSD and God knows what else. Think about how much extra money the typical American family is paying because of $107/bbl oil. The rising cost of food. Look at the airline industry - fuel costs (among other things) has led to 3 carriers filing for bankruptcy.

It has been an unmitigated disaster.


by highgrade on Mon Apr 07, 2008 at 09:46:22 PM EST


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