Towards President McCain

Everyone keeps talking about the delegate math being insurmountable for Hillary, but clearly she would not still be in the race if she did not think she could beat it. Her campaign has already broadcast how. She'll tear down her opponent, tear apart (if she must) the Democratic Party, and then deal with the general election when she gets there.

It's obvious that her goal in the primaries is to win Pennsylvania by continuing the kind of campaigning that was effective for her in Ohio and Texas. She is going to continue to throw the "kitchen sink" at Obama for the next seven or so weeks. The media, no doubt, will eat it up. By then, Obama will be sufficiently weakened and tarred for new primaries in Michigan and Florida. Watch her "concern" for Democracy grow louder and louder as these states figure more and more into her strategy of changing the rules that no longer suit her. After pulling ahead in these states, she'll ask the superdelegates to fall in line.

So far, so good. She's not bad at short and mid-term thinking. It's thinking in the long-term that kills her. She had a plan for 'Super Tuesday', but not for what might happen afterwards. Likewise, it seems like her new plan could get her to the Democratic Convention, but doesn't take into account how her behavior in the primaries affects her chances in the general.

Make no mistake, if Hillary keeps playing it how she has this week, the party will end up watching its best opportunity in decades go down in flames. Democrats will be reminded of the 50% of Americans who say they will never vote for her. Crossover independents and Republicans will not materialize. Many of the new voters Obama brought in will no-show. Her scorched earth tactics will have turned off large percentages of significant core Democratic groups, in particular African Americans, younger voters, and progressives.

When the electorate is asked in November "who do you want answering the phone at 3am", it will be a McCain ad. Unsurprisingly, much of the general electorate will decide a grizzled vet is better prepared to be Commander-in-Chief than a 6 year Senator/former First Lady. By Hillary's own standards of "experience", it's McCain who should be President, not her. She even spent this week running around praising McCain over her Democratic opponent. Given her initial support for the Iraq war, she'll have no traction on that issue either.

It's too bad that Hillary's tactics in the last week have proven so effective. If only it was the nice version of Hillary that was winning places like Ohio. That's the Hillary that could win the election against McCain, and that's the Hillary that could bring around Obama supporters. Unfortunately, it's the nasty one who is getting results now. There's no reason to believe she won't continue on that track. Hillary's found her voice... again. It's a recipe for a Clinton nomination and a McCain presidency.



Display:


this could possibly wreck the Dem party (none / 0)

I personally support Obama, but I can see that no matter who is at the head of the ticket, that we will be alienating a nice chunk of our supporters. It almost makes me wish that one of the candidates had knocked the other out early - whether in NH, or even if it were Hillary after Super Tuesday. This is shaping out to be very dangerous - there is nowhere to go but negative. Hillary understands that negative campaiging has clearly worked and will not let it go. Obama now realizes that he needs to jump into the muck, and considering he has untold millions in the bank, he can do so 24/7.


by highgrade on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:24:48 PM EST

Re: this could possibly wreck the Dem party (none / 0)

If Obama also goes negative, McCain wins. Ur at least very negative. At this point only Hillary is only hurting herself but if Obama takes the bait it could hurt him as well.

At this point Obama has pushed into the mainstream press the fact that Clinton's claims of foreign policy experience aren't what they seem. Next I imagine he will push the same line about her claims of domestic policy experience.


by illlaw1 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I honestly believe (none / 0)

That this idea that "if Obama goes negative, it will undermine the appeal of his argument" is complete bunk. As many have stated, there is a difference between going negative and going nuclear. If he started running commercials about Clinton's affairs and "restoring the honor of the office" etc, then I would agree with you.

But in my conversations with Obama supporters (obviously completely anecdotal), many say they wish he were even tougher in his campaigning against Hillary. I think people sometimes underestimate the extent to which Obama's success is based on voter's hate/mistrust of Hillary.


by highgrade on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I honestly believe (none / 0)

Sorry. Your nuclear is my negative. I don't think pointing out that she's full of shit about her alleged accomplishments is negative. I think doing things that are personal (hey Obama is a terrorist sympathizer!) are negative.


by illlaw1 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's a Clinton ad that says BO is a... (none / 0)

terrorist sympathizer?


by Shazone on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's the difference - to you - of ... (none / 0)

negative advertising and "advertising" that touts your own qualities or those that deal with how you're different from the other candidate.  


by Shazone on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain won't be that bad of a president, I guess (none / 0)

Too bad some Democrats are so short sighted. Crash the gates indeed.

Seriously though the superdelegates know that what's happening and after they see Foster beating Oberweis enough of them should understand that this is a unique moment that they'll never swing the race to Clinton. The only question is how negative will they let her go before they come out in large numbers for Obama so that he is not too damaged by another "Democrat" before he has to take on Mr. 100 years.


by illlaw1 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:28:00 PM EST

Re: McCain won't be that bad of a president, (none / 0)

So Obama has coattails in his HOME STATE and that somehow means he has coattails everywhere?

Not a correlation I'd make.


by Sensible on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 06:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain won't be that bad of a president, (none / 0)

One of Barack Obama's strengths with the Democratic leadership has been his fundraising and campaigning for successful Congressional Democrats in 2006 (like Jim Webb of Virginia). He will be out there doing the same this year regardless if he is he nominee. I hope Hillary Clinton will be doing the same to elect larger Democratic majorities in the House and Senate, although I never heard of any direct support from her for Bill Foster, and I live in Illinois. The House seat he won has been Republican for over 40 years. Hope Hillary has better coattails than Bill had in 1994, 1996, 1998 and 2000. She will need those majorities to get her agenda passed or its gridlock, deja vu.


by victoryfordems on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:21:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Remember Darwin? (none / 0)

If Obama doesn't survive Hillary's allegedly scorched-earth strategy (which I don't believe for a second), then Obama will have no chance to withstand McCain and Rove.

If Obama not only survives this fight, then that would mean that he'd have developed an effective counterargument against Hillary's 3AM commander-in-chief phonecall.

As it stands now, if Obama can't even put together a coherent defense and offense against Hillary, how will he answer the same questions in the fall against McCain?

If Hillary wins the nomination, she'd have won it under siege and with a strategy that works with the voters.  If Obama wins the nomination, he'd have won it under siege and with a stragetgy that works with the voters.

I say, let them fight on.  It's the best way to prove how tough Obama is.  It's the best way to vet the newbie.


by Sieglinde on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:32:50 PM EST

Re: Remember Darwin? (none / 0)

Second paragraph, I meant:

If Obama survives this fight and prevails in the Democratic nomination process, then that would mean that he'd have developed an effective counterargument against Hillary's 3AM commander-in-chief phonecall.


by Sieglinde on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember Darwin? (none / 0)

I agree with your overall assessment. However, I think his response to the 3am ad was very strong and let's just wait and see how this all turns out.


by marcotom on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought his response was childish... (none / 0)

and only focused more people's attention on her ad.

He stupidly used the same footage - it was kind of like "my ad is better than your ad...nah nah".


by Shazone on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember Darwin? (none / 0)

He could sit on his hands and she still couldn't catch up. He just has to be like Roy Jones Jr. who after dominating the fight for most of the rounds, just pops you enough to look good because he already won.


by illlaw1 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember Darwin? (none / 0)

But he shouldn't just let the math award him the win.

Obama must also win the argument, so that the legitimacy of his nomination, if he gets there, will never be questioned by any Democrat.

He can't afford to sit on his hands.  The superdelegates will punish him if he doesn't launch an effective counterargument against Hillary's effective attacks.


by Sieglinde on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Remember Darwin? (none / 0)

But that's hardly a strategy.

If she wins everything from here on out and closest the gap, the superdelegates are going to wonder about him.

It's the different between winning 51%-49% and 55%-45%. Is this how you want him to run a GE campaign? Just enough to win and then screw it? I thought we wanted to build a national coalition, not just enough to win.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:19:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't Worry (none / 0)

it was just a bad week, in fact it wouldn't even have been that damaging to him if he had handled it with his usual skill and deflection. Losing in TX threw him off, he'll be back on his A game after mississippi.


BHO/HRC 08
by omar little on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:34:13 PM EST

Re: Don't Worry (none / 0)

Agreed.


by marcotom on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Obama HAS gone negative...

"She's a monster"

"What experience does she have?"

"Whitewater"

"Bill Clinton's a racist"

Do you think Clinton supporters are just going to forgive and forget?


by rossinatl on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:35:17 PM EST

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Yeah, was that Obama, really? Racist, monster? Your are deluding yourself.


by marcotom on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:38:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Seriously, I mean...

sigh, I can't write this snarky post.  It won't help anything.  Just look at Clinton campaign's attacks on Obama as well.  Both campaigns are about go very negative, because of it working in Ohio.  It isn't just one-sided.


by Tantris on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Of the four listed, only one came from Obama. The "monster" comment led to a prompt dismissal (unlike Mark Penn's "Ken Starr" comment). Whitewater references had only been brought up by people outside of his campaign in response to Rezko-based attacks, and never by Obama. I don't think Obama ever called Bill a racist... as far as I know...

The "experience" question is fair enough, given that she's beaten Obama over the head with it for months now.  If she puts an ad out about crisis management ("children"), is it not fair to ask which crises she's managed?


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you think us African-Americans are going (none / 0)

to forget and forgive?


by illlaw1 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:55:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you think us African-Americans are going (none / 0)

Well somebody is going to have to.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you think us African-Americans are going (none / 0)

A substantial number won't. Some will because they expected it anyway and don't expect more. But some don't turn the other cheek so easily.


by illlaw1 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:47:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you think us African-Americans are going (none / 0)

Nah. We don't get much out of either party and enough of us know it that you'll see a significant decrease.


by illlaw1 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 10:47:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

And what of her supporters who will never go for Obama? Hillary has increased participation by Latino and Asian voters. Gay and lesbians voters go for her over 60%. There are enough her to give the election to McCain.


by DaleA on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 04:56:03 PM EST

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

And what of her supporters who will never go for Obama? Hillary has increased participation by Latino and Asian voters. Gay and lesbians voters go for her over 60%. There are enough her to give the election to McCain.

No, they aren't. The percentage of Hillary's supporters in those groups who won't vote for Obama are tiny. Moreover, Latinos and Asians don't vote a whole helluva lot. Despite the fact that Latinos are now the country's largest minority group, the black vote is much more valuable because it's monolithically Democratic and blacks turn out in far higher numbers. Perhaps Hillary should worry about black folks not voting for her. Afterall, Hillary is neither Latino nor Asian nor homosexual. I have to imagine that the African American attachment to Obama is much stronger than any of the former groups' identification with Hillary.


by RP McMurphy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:09:00 PM EST

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

You're forgetting women over 40.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:21:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

You're forgetting women over 40.

Honestly folks, the contingent of people who won't vote one or the other Democratic nominee is quite small outside of the internet. The over-sensitive paleo-feminists who've threatened not to vote for Obama because of his blatant misogyny (don't ask for an example, they can't give one) will have a difficult choice to make: Would they like to see Roe v. Wade overturned or not? By November, I'm sure the vast majority of them will have come to their senses.  


by RP McMurphy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 06:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

No example?

Periodically when she's feeling low...the claws come out.

Obama is a sexist .


by Sensible on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 06:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

No example?

Periodically when she's feeling low...the claws come out.

Obama is a sexist .

Hahahaha. Gawd you're nuts. This isn't even worth a response. I guess Hillary's a racist because in her 3 am ad -- the letters NIG appeared on the child's pajamas -- oh, and 9/11 was an inside job, dontcha know...


by RP McMurphy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 07:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

The question isn't who won't turn up in November...my guess is, your right, and most Democrats will vote for whoever is the nominee...the question is lack of excitment. Whoever gets the nomination will lose the enthusiasm of the other candidate. Obama supporters like to think they have all the enthusiasm...they don't. There will be a downtick in Democratic enthusiasm as soon as the nominee is decided.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is all BS (none / 0)

We are a long way from the GE.

All of this nonsense that mccain will win, we are tearing the party apart, etc. is all nonsense.

If you think like this, if you write like this, if you spread negative crap like this, then you may just be working for a self fulfilling prophecy of defeat.

I will continue on the positive path for DEMOCRATS and We The People!


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:16:25 PM EST

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

i'm so sick of hearing about Hillary's 'negative' campaigning and scorched earth campaign methods. Obama has been just as negative in this race, but, the media just tends to overlook the fact. He began lambasting Clinton in November, and continue throwing fireballs at her and her husband's legacy. Obama supporters are in for a rude awakening during the GE, McCain and the right wing machine are going to run a true scorched earth campaign.


by corunner26 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:30:04 PM EST

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Why do so many Obama supporters think Clinton should withdraw or go easy on Obama just because he has a pledged delegate lead with many contests still to come and he has not got enough to win the nomination?

What Clinton's saying about Obama is nothing to what he'll be facing in the GE.

If Michigan and Florida vote again and she wins by similar margins to last time, she'll be ahead in the popular vote and be extremely close in the pledged delegate total. By that point, the delegate math is far from insurmountable.


by liberalj on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:34:49 PM EST

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

She will not win by a similar margin in Michigan.  Not a chance.  I bet Obama would win a Michigan revote.  


by Toddwell on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Michigan is tougher for her. I think she'll win Florida by more.

If Michigan holds a caucus then Obama has a better chance, if it holds a firehouse primary then Clinton's chances improve.


by liberalj on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 05:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Towards President McCain (none / 0)

Well let's have a vote then.  If he wins, that's great.

However, the Obama camp, Donna Brazille, etc want to drag their heels until it's too late...shades of Katherine Harris.


by Sensible on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 06:36:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Based on Hillary's Back stabbing, Vindictive, (none / 0)

Tactic, I have been mulling voting for McCain, If Hillary wins the nomination.
In reality I really only see two things that I dislike about the McCain; his stance of the Iraq war, and the possibility that he would appoint more anti-choice justices to the Supreme Court.
But I don't think Clinton will approach the Iraq war much differently that McCain would (regardless of what she says), and having her in charge of the state department and the military really scares the hell out of me. Will she turn on allied nations like she turned on Obama? How close is her association with neo-cons? Can we trust her not to use the military for political gain, since nothing appears beneath her doing politically?
At least with McCain, a former POW, I know he will keep the best interest of the servicemen to heart, and he won't use the militay for political gain. And I was impressed that he spoke in favor of shutting down Gitmo, and ending the perception that America favored torture.
As a military man I may have to bite the bullet on the por-choice issue (put my faith in that the Democratic party won't let a pro-life zealot get to the Supreme Court), and look out for the best interest of diplomatic relations and the Military, and vote her McCain, If Hillary wins the nomination.
In any case, I won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances, that would be against my principles, but I will vote for all the other Democratic on the ballots, and will give time, money, and effort towards getting more Democrats into the legislative Branch.
More than likely I won't vote for either McCain or Hillary, if Hillary wins the nomination, but I will leave open the option of voting for McCain, depending upon on how he and she campaign.
But I have faith and confidence that Obama will win the nomination (I just can't see the super delegate favoring Clinton, and her divisive campaign tactics).  
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 08:18:50 PM EST

Re: Based on Hillary's Back stabbing, Vindictive, (none / 0)

wow, you give a better endorsement of John McCain than Hillary could ever give.

We're you impressed about how he voted against banning torture? Were you impressed when he said he was ready to bomb Iran?

Taxes? Healthcare? The economy?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Based on Hillary's Back stabbing, Vindictive, (none / 0)

I can't see how any one that is a Democrat would want to vote for John McCain. He shows no interest in fixing the economy, admitting he's not very good at it. If you like wars in Afghanistan and Iraq with our military strectched to the limit, I hope you will like a third one in Iran during the McCain administration. My son has already been to Iraq, is going to Afghanistan later this year, and I'm sure he is looking forward to Iran in the future. Say goodbye to healthcare too. What good will it be to elect larger Democratic majorities in the House and Senate and have McCain as President? Four more years of running in place? We have a golden opportunity to elect a Democratic President this year and strong majorities in Congress. We have record turnouts and huge financial advantages. Let's not blow it this time. Support our nominee,  whoever he or she is. Don't look back four years from now and regret the election of John McCain, like we have regretted the last eight years.


by victoryfordems on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 09:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then (none / 0)

Why did Hillary say McCain had passed the threshold of Commander in Chief?


"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then (none / 0)

dunno, but thanks for explaning it above.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Sun Mar 09, 2008 at 10:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All I did was (none / 0)

Pointed out the obvious, none of which are debatable.
Fact: McCain is a war hero that spent 5 year as a POW, when he had the option to return home because he was an admiral's son.
Fact: McCain's son has gone to Iraq.
Fact: McCain said he would shut down Gitmo
Fact: McCain has spoken out passionately against torture.
However, never did I say McCain was fit to be Commander in Chief, in fact I said repeatedly that I thought he was unfit to be CinC.
But Clinton implied that is fit to be CinC (and that Obama wasn't).
How does it feel to have somebody give McCain more praise than they give Hillary?
Feels terrible doesn't it?
Well, now you know how Obama supporters felt.
Only it wasn't a blogger that praised McCain over Obama, it was Clinton herself.
She aint getting my vote.
"Please. How stupid do I look to you? World Domination. I'll leave that to the religious nuts or the Republicans, thank you." The Monarch (Evil Villain)
by fetboy on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 12:07:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All I did was (none / 0)

but McCain is? sure

Fact: He spoke passionately against torture, then allowed Bush to go ahead and do it.

Hillary didn't.

He ain't getting my vote, even against her.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 06:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Poor little baby (none / 0)

It's not about feeling sorry for Obama. No matter what happens, Obama has a great future.  I'm feeling sorry for the party and the country. I really think Hillary's on the verge of screwing things up.


Saxby Chambliss: Asshat
by mikeinsf on Mon Mar 10, 2008 at 05:23:45 AM EST


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